M: Hello, Jason san. ジェイソンさん、こんにちは J: Hello, Misato san. 美里さん、こんにちは。 M: Thank you for coming, and could you tell me a little bit about yourself? お越しいただきましてありがとうございます。少し、ご自身のことをお話いただけますか？ J:Well,I'm 36 years old. I started studing Japanese when I was in high school. I've mostly been studying by myself ever since. 36歳で、高校の時に日本語を学び始めました。 それからずっと独学で日本語を学んでいます。 M: OK, why are you interested in Japan? なるほど。どうして日本に興味があるのですか？ J: Well, we have a lot of Japanese people here in America, especially in Oregon, where I live. So I wanted to learn the language partially because I'd have the opportunity to use it. Also I've just always be drawn to Japanese history and culture for some reason ever since I was young. アメリカ、特に私が住んでいるオレゴンには日本人がたくさんいます。 なので日本語を使う機会があるということで学びたかったのと、 小さいころから日本の歴史や文化に惹かれていたからです。 M: What kind of Japanese history, or Japanese culture especially? 特にどのような歴史や文化ですか？ J: Well, I just thought it's interesting how Japan had such a turbulent, or a violent history with all the wars that were going on. And yet, out of that came a very peaceful and cultural society that we know of today. You have a lot of art and literature and things that just kind of came out of that really violent period. I always thought that was kind of an interesting contrast. And also because of the fact that the Samurai era and everthing I just think it's interesting to most guys. 日本は歴史的に戦争が多く、非常に暴力的で激しい国だったのに 現在ではその歴史を経て、非常に平和で文化的な社会になっています。 日本にはその戦争が多かった時代から生み出された美術や文学がたくさんあります。 その対比に惹かれるんです。 また、サムライの時代などは男性にとって非常におもしろいものなんですよ。 M: Right. なるほど。 J: Kind of like the English knights. It's the interesting period in the history. 英国の騎士みたいなものです。歴史的に興味深い時代でした。 M: And the culture? 文化はいかがでした？ J: I particularly like the...well, just aside from the fact that Japanese is very different from America. I mean, everything about Japan is different than in America. so just that alone is interesting, but also the social, just the manners of Japanese people, how they treat each other. Because there are so many people in Japan, right? So I think in general, they have to be more aware of other people than you have to be here in America. アメリカが日本とあまりにも違うという点が特に好きです。 日本のあらゆる部分がアメリカとは異なります。 それだけでも面白いのに、日本の方の人に対する接し方やマナーが 全然違うんです。 と、いうのも日本にはたくさん人がいるでしょ？ なので、一般的にアメリカにいるよりは日本のほうが人に気を使わなければいけないのです。 M: "Aware of other people?" 気を使う？ J: Yeah, for instance, you have to be aware of there's a lot of people living really close to you. There are a lot of people with you on the subway, or around on the street. Whereas in America you are more removed from people. You have more space, so I think that Japanese language partially reflects that. I think that maybe that's one of the reasons why Japanese people are so polite because they have to be. They are around more people more often. And they have to be more considerate, I think. たとえば、 たくさんの人が近くに住んでいたり、 道や地下鉄にたくさんの人がいたり・・ 一方でアメリカでは、人とあまり接しません。 なので日本語はそれに影響を受けていると思います。 なので、おそらくそれもあって日本人の方は礼儀正しいんだと思います。 礼儀正しくないといけないから。 人に囲まれているからこそ、 思いやりがないといけないんです。 M: Right, I see. なるほど。 J: But also, I just think the certain things like tea ceremony, and Kabuki theater and Noh plays are interesting to me. そして、茶道や歌舞伎や能もおもしろいとおもいます。 M: How did you know about these tea ceremonies, and Kabuki plays and stuff? Did you read about that, or did you actually watch somebody doing it? 茶道や歌舞伎などをどのようにしてしったんですか？ 本で読んだんですか？それともだれかがしているのをみたんですか？ J: I've seen, of course in America, we see it being done sometimes on movies or on TV. Also when I was in Japanese class in high school, we had a culture day once a week where our teacher would talk about certain things and we actually watched her perform the tea ceremony. And she talked a little bit about different kinds of plays and instruments like koto and shamisen...so she told us a little bit about that, and I've done a little bit reading on my own since then. アメリカで、映画やＴＶで見ました。 また、高校にいたとき、週に一回「文化デー」があって 先生が文化などに関してお話されましたし、彼女が茶道を行うのも 見たことがあります。 そして琴や三味線に関しても教えてもらいましたし、 それから自分で本を読んだというのもあります。 M:Great. So you started studying Japanese when you were in high school? すばらしいですね。高校のときに日本語を学び始めたんですよね。 J: Yes, when I was 16 years old. そうです。16歳でした。 M: So you've been studying it for 20 years? では20年間も勉強を？ J: Yes, but I took a break for maybe two or three years because I had a cancer for a while. So I wasn't able to focus on it, of course. So aside from that I've been studying it ever since. はい、でも途中、癌にかかったので2−3年のブランクはありました。 日本語の勉強に集中できませんでしたから。 でもそれを除いてはずっと勉強していますよ。 M: Oh wow. How is it going? うまくいっていますか？ J: Well, it's rough at times, I can get very discouraged sometimes, because even though you study consistently, sometimes you feel like you are making a lot of progress. But then when you try to talk to somebody in Japanese or you try to listen to a conversation in Japanese, you realise there's still a lot you don't understand. It can be a little discourage at times, but, I think it's more important to focus on the improvements, and I do notice the improvements, so... ときどきは厳しいですね、失望することもあります。 というのも、ずっと勉強して上達したように感じていても、 誰かと日本語で話そうとしたり、日本語の会話を聞いても、 まだまだわからないことがたくさんあります。 なので落ち込むこともありますが、上達していることに目を向けることが 大事だとおもいます。上達していることはわかるので・・・。 M: Good. So tell me, when you communicate with Japanese people, is there anything that you are careful about? なるほど。お聞きしますが、日本人とコミュニケーションを取る時に 気をつけていることはありますか？ J: Yeah, I think the most important thing that I am careful about when I speak Japanese or speak to Japanese is not to use too much slang. はい、一番気をつけていることはスラングを使いすぎないことですね。 M: OK. なるほど。 J: And if I do use it, I make sure I'll explain it or ask them "Do you understand this? Do you understand the meaning of this?" Also,I'm careful not to speak too fast, because that's of course the common problem for people they just start talking and they don't realise that they speak way too fast. And, also I try to keep my sentences short. If there's a way I can say something in two or three small sentences, then I'd try to do that, rather than say it in one really big long sentence. スラングを使うときは、必ず説明するか、理解しているかきくことにしています。 また、早く話し過ぎないようにしています。 と、いうのも話し始めてそうとは気付かずに早口になってしまう人がいるからです。 また、文章を短くするようにしています。 もし２−３文の短い文章で言えることなら、長い文章でいうよりも短い文章で 伝えます。 M: Wow, you are so nice! 親切ですね！ J: Yeah, I'm very considerate. It's just because I've been doing this for a long time. I know what kind of thing I'd want if I'm speaking to somebody else in another language. そうですね。 というのももう長く勉強しているので、外国語を学んでいる人が どんなことを話し手に気をつけてほしいのかわかるんですよ。 M: Well, I'll be careful when I speak to you in Japanese next time. When you comminucate with Japanese people, is there anything that bugs you? じゃあ次回あなたに日本語を話すときは気をつけることにします。 日本人とコミュニケーションをとるときにイライラする点とかありますか？ J: Nothing specific. I mean, other than, of course not being able to understand each other, but nothing specific that I can say "yes, this really bothers me, or this really bothers me." I think that...yeah, other than maybe the slang. It works in both ways. Sometimes people use slang in Japanese to me and I don't understand it either, so... I think the only thing that bothers me is maybe people using really really complex sentences, maybe. And I start to get frustrated and that makes me not listen as much to what they are saying. So that can be a little tough at times, I think. 特にないですね。 つまり、まあお互いの言いたいことが伝わらないってことはありますけど、 「これにイライラする！」というのはないです。 うーん。多分スラングかな。 双方向ではありますけど。時々、日本語のスラングを使われても わからないので・・・ イライラするといえば、 めちゃくちゃ複雑な文章を使ってくる人ですね。 ストレスが溜まって、それ以上聞きたくなくなったりします。 そういう時はちょっとつらいですね。 M: Tell me the most surprising experience you've had when communicating with Japanese people. 日本人とコミュニケーションしていて一番びっくりした経験を 教えてください。 J: Let's see. well, I have one story that does come to mind. It is surprising, but it's maybe not surprising in a way you are meaning it. えっと、思い浮かぶ話があるにはあるんだけど、 びっくりはするけど、君の言うびっくりとは違うかも・・・ M:OK. わかりました。 J: So, in Japanese of course, you have a lot of words that sound similar. right? So, when I was talking to one of my Japanese friend one time, he was telling me about this very, very famous temple that he wanted to go see in Japan. I guess the biggest temple in all of Japan. Now, of course, in Japanese the word for temple is "otera". OK, but when he told me that he was going to see this big, famous "otera", for some reason I thought he meant "otearai". And so, he's all excited about it. Saying "Yeah! I'm gonna go see this real famous place!" And I'm thinking, "Wow, really? You guys really have a famous bathroom in Japan? What's so great about it? I don't understand!" And finally, after about five minutes, It finally occured to me that he meant temple instead of otearai. Yeah, there are those misunderstandings some times. And I told him that I misunderstood and I think he probably laughed for, maybe five minutes after that. 日本語ってたくさん同じような音の単語がありますよね？ 以前、日本人の友人と話していたときに、日本で行ってみたいとても有名な お寺があるといったんです。 日本で一番大きなお寺だといっていました。 もちろん、日本語でお寺というのは「お寺」といいますよね？ でも彼が有名なお寺に行く、といったときに、 私はなぜか「お手洗い」にいく、と聞こえたんです。 で、彼はめちゃ興奮していて 「イエーイ！有名な場所に行ってくるんだよ！」というので 「ええ？日本には有名なトイレがある？何がそんなにすばらしいんだ？わかんないよ！」 と思っていたわけです。 で、彼に誤解していた旨を伝えると、5分くらい笑っていましたね。 M: Some people ask me, "I can't continue the conversation in English." Do you have any advice to people like that? 「英語で会話を続けることができません」とおっしゃる人が いますが、そのような方にアドバイスはありますか？ J: Well, that happens to me a lot as well as you know. There's times when you simply won't be able to continue the conversation, talking about the same subject that you are currently talking about. And there might not be any way around that at the time. But I think what I do is, I pay attention to the things that each time that I'm not able to continue talking about. Eventually I think you'll start to notice the pattern, about maybe the certain grammer structures that you are not comfortable with and that's why you can't continue the conversation. Or of course vocabulary is always an issue. But I think if you pay attention to each conversation after three or four times you'll start to notice that it wasn't so much because of the vocabulary maybe it's more because of how to construct sentenses you weren't comfortable with or certain grammer structure, so then you start to review those and the next time, between conversations you can go back and pretend like you are still having a conversation and write it down and say "OK, what I've said now that I had a chance to study a little bit" and just continue that conversation and see if you can finish it. ご存知の通り、僕にも良くあります。 現在話されている話題において会話を続けることが 不可能な場合は時々あります。 で、すぐには解決できる問題でもありません。 私がやっているのは何について会話を続けることができなかったのか 気をつけることにしています。 そうするとだんだん、パターンが見えてくるのです、 たとえば、ある文法が苦手で会話がつづかないとか、 ボキャブラリーはいつも問題ですね。 でも、続かない会話パターンを3回、4回と見ているうちに語彙はそんなに 問題ではないということに気付きます。 どちらかというと問題は、苦手な文章構成や特定の文法が問題なのだとわかり、 それらを復習したりします。 (ここから、途中で本人が何を言っているかわからなくなり、 長い文章が続きますが、要するに）会話が終わった後に、 まだ会話が続いているかのように一人で今、続けられなかった会話の 続きをいう練習をします。 M: OK. That's a great advice. Thank you. すばらしいアドバイスですね、ありがとう。 J: You are welcome. どういたしまして。 M: When talking to native English speakers, sometimes they have trouble understanding what we are trying to say. What do you think, is the main reason for that? ネイティブと話しているときに私たちの言いたいことを理解してくれないことがあります。 なぜでしょう？ J: Well, I think of course aside from the very obious thing like we talk very fast or we use a lot of slang or idioms, idiomatic expressions that mean something very different from what it actually means if you are trying to translate directly, people use those kinds of expressions a lot and they don't realize how much they use them. So I think that's one big obstacle and I think a lot of Americans, especially if they don't have a background in speaking another language. They don't understand the kind of obstacles that these Japanese people are facing when they are talking to you. They don't understand that you might have to try and explain things in more than one way in order for these people to understand. So hopefully if you are talking to somebody who is looking for a language partner, they'll be more sensitive to those kinds of problems, I think. まあ、我々が早く話しすぎるとか、スラングやことわざを使うといった点以外では 直訳しても理解が難しい意味のかけ離れたイディオムを使ってしまうことでしょうか。 意識せずに良く使われます。 それが障害になりますね。 アメリカ人は外国語を話すバックグラウンドがないひとがたくさんいますので 日本人の方がどんな障害を背負って外国語を話しているのか変わらないのです。 彼らはあなた方が時には1つ以上の言い方でモノゴトを説明しなければ理解されないということが わからないわけです。　なので、ランゲージ・パートナーを探している人と話すと そういう問題にももっと気を使ってくれると思いますよ。 M: OK. So I guess we just have to choose and select whom we talk to. なるほど。じゃあ話す相手を選ぶ必要があると。 J: I think so. That'll be a big part of it. That's the biggest thing that I think that comes to my mind. Um, of course I'm thinking more what you are trying to say. Maybe what I try to do if I'm not quite sure what the Japanese person is trying to say, then I will ask them maybe one or two questions, "Do you mean this, or do you mean this?" And usually they will say "Oh, yeah, that's it. That second one was whatI was trying to say." or "No, that's not it at all." That happens sometimes maybe I think is unavoidable all the time. I just usually slowly ask them "Do you mean this, or do you mean this?" and usually that would be enough to clarify. そうですね。それが大きいと思いますよ。 ちょっとあなたが言わんとしていることを考えているのですが、 もし私が日本人の方が言おうとしていることがわからなかった場合、 「こういう意味ですか？それともこの意味ですか？」と1−2個質問をすると思います。 で、通常彼らは「そうそう、2番目のことが言いたかったんだよ」とか 「いやいや全然ちがうよ」って言います。 そういうことは起こりますし、完全になくすことは難しいと思いますので そういう時はゆっくり「こういう意味ですか？それともこの意味ですか？」と聞くと それだけで十分な場合が多いですね。 M: When you have trouble understanding what they're trying to say, is it like prononuciation or grammer...? もしあなたが彼らの言わんとするところがわからない場合、それは発音ですか、文法ですか・・・？ J: Oh, I see. Well, it can be both. As you know, Japanese people have trouble pronoucing certain words and certain sounds. Yeah, that happens to me all the time when like my Japanese person says, for instance, something about "food" or "wood". See, when Japanese person say these two words and sounds exactly same to an American, so they might be talking about I want to eat some food, tabemono, right? When they say it, it sounds almost like they want to eat some wood, "ki". なるほど。ま両方かな。 知っての通り、特定の単語や音を発音するのが日本人には難しいから。 たとえば「food」と「wood」だね。 日本人がこれらの単語を発音するとアメリカ人にはまったく同じに聞こえるんだ。 多分、食べ物がほしいっていってるんだと思うんだけど、「木がほしい」 みたいに聞こえるんだ。 M: Why? Why is it same?? I mean it's food and wood, right? えー、なんぜ同じなの？foodとwoodでしょ？ J: Well, because Japanese people have trouble with W sound so they don't pronounce it at all. They can pronounce the F sound, food. Thay can pronounce that OK sometimes because you have that sound in Japanese. But they cannot pronounce W sound. A lot of times, I won't understand so takes me like a second and I have to think about what they are saying. But there was an instance just the other day, I'm trying to remember what it was. A friend of mine said a word. Ah, I just did not understand what she was saying. It was just because of one syllable what she was mispronoucing and finally I just said that "Can you please write it?" when she wrote it, I laughed and I said "OK" and, I pronounced it. Yeah, I mean, that happens unfortunately you can try to correct the pronounciation, right? but the problem is sometimes Japanese people simply can't hear the difference. So they can't correct the pronounciation because they can't hear that even the sound's different to them. I'm not quite sure how to fix that. But usually I'd say it's "pronouciacion more than grammer". 日本人にはwの音を発音するのが難しいからまったく発音しないんだ。 f音, foodは発音できる。 日本語にある音は発音できる場合がある。 でもwはできないんだ。 わからないから、何を言っているのか理解するまで何秒かかかるよ。 こないだ、あることがあって、ちょっと思い出せないんだけど、 友達がね、ある言葉を言おうとして全然理解できなかったんだよね。 たった一つの子音を彼女が間違えて発音していたせいなんだけど 「書いてくれる？」っていったんだよね、 で、僕は「なるほど」といって笑ってその単語を発音したわけなんだけど・・・ まあそんなこともあるし、発音を治せばいいんだろうけど、 問題は、違いが聞き取れない人もいるってことなんだよ。 ２つの音の違いが聞き取れないから発音を正すこともできない。 どうやって直したらいいかわかんないけど、でも文法よりは発音だと思うよ。 M: So the big thing is like W, and TH? じゃあ重要なのはwとthなのね？ J: Yeah, and R and L sound like rice and laugh, and other TH sound like Mr. Smi"th". Japanese people tend to say Mr. Smi"S", that with an S. And for instance, "There is". Japanese people tend to say "Zere is" with most like a Z sound. W sounds are difficult like "wood" or "want", or "won't" like "I won't go to the store". Those are big obstacles, I think. そうだね。rice/laughのようなR/L, Mr.Smithのときのようなth音。 日本人の方はMr.SmithのことをthをSにしてMr.Smisと発音してしまうんだよ。 たとえばThere isもだけど、日本人の方はZere isと Z音で発音してしまう。 W音も、 "wood" とか "want", "won't"みたいに難しいね。"I won't go to the store"とかね。 こんな音が大きな障害となるんだよ。 M: OK. Great. So I guess we should work on those, right? すばらしい。じゃあこれらを重点的に学べばいいですよね？ J: I think so, but again don't be too discouraged because we can usually still understand what you are trying to say. It's just sometimes, like I said the other day there was that certain instance I couldn't understand until she wrote it. That's pretty rare, I think. Usually we can understand what you are trying to say. そうですね。でも、がっかりしすぎないように・・・言わんとすることはわかりますから。 時たまなので・・・さっきもいったように友人が書き出すまでわからなかったのは。 あんまりないですね、こんなことは。大体いわんとすることはわかりますよ。 M: OK. So just don't be too discouraged. じゃあがっかりしすぎないでということで。 J: Do your best and don't spend too much time on it and feel like we are not gonna be able to understand. そのことで理解されないかも、と悩み過ぎないように。 M: All right. Thank you for your advice. わかりました。アドバイスありがとうございます。 M: Some people are afraid to speak English, because they are worried about making mistakes. What's your advice to people who feel that way?" 間違いを恐れて、英語を話すのが怖いという人がいます。 そのような人にアドバイスはありますか？ J: Well, the ironic thing is unless you've been speaking for 10 years and you are fluent, you are going to always make mistakes. I have this problem. I don't want to make mistakes. When I make mistakes, I get discouraged. So it makes me not want to speak Japanese. You can't get caught in that trap because then you will never improve and you'll never speak. So you just have to make up your mind that "you know I will make a ton of mistakes. I don't care. You will laugh about it and my friend will most certainly laugh about it when I make the mistakes." So just try to say anything you want to say. Even if you make 20 mistakes it doesn't matter. Because you can always go back and learn. Next time you might only make 15 mistakes or 10 mistakes. Yeah, I say just do it as much as you can. Make all the mistakes right away and then learn all the common mistakes so you won't make them anymore. 皮肉なことなんだけど、10年英語を話してペラペラになるまでは ずっと間違うってことなんだよ。 その問題は僕にもあって、間違いたくない。 間違うと、落ち込む。 だから日本語を話したくなくなる。 このわなにはまるとずっと話せなくなるから上達もしない。 だから決心をしないといけないんだ。 「たくさん間違う！もう気にしない！笑われてもいいし、友達にも間違ったら 笑われると思う！」って。 なんでも言いたいことを言うんだ。20個間違っても関係ない。 っていうのも振り返って学ぶことができるからだ。 次の機会には15個か10個しか間違わないかも入れない。 できるだけやるんだ。 早い機会にたくさん間違って、ありがちな間違いを全部経験すると もう間違わなくて済むよ。 M: Yeah, I would say the more you make mistakes the more you learn, actually. そうね。間違えば間違うほど学ぶよね。 J: Yeah, exactly. It's just like with anything. Like I can't just pick up a guitar and look over a song and memorize and play it perfectly. そうだよ。　なんでもそうだよね？ ギターで始めての曲を楽譜でみて暗譜で完璧には弾けないでしょ。同じだよ。 M: That would be a genious man. それができたら天才ね。 J: Yeah. I've gotta tell you that I'm learning a new song on guitar, I make probably hundreds of mistakes before I'm able to play perfectly. So it's just the way it is and people have to accept it, and not worry about it. そうだね。 ギターで新しい曲を練習している。 完璧にひけるようになるまで何百回も間違うだろう。 そういうもんだよ、それを受け入れて、心配しないことだよ。 M: All right. That's a great advice. Thanks. なるほど。いいアドバイスね、ありがとう。 J: You are welcome. どういたしまして。 M: What do you think is the most effective way for Japanese people to learn to speak English?" 日本人が英語を学ぶのに一番効率的な方法はどんなんだとおもう？ J: I think it's critically important early on to really focus on listening comprehension. That was the mistake that I made myself when I was learning Japanese then I didn't focus on listening comprehension. So I think it's important to really focus on listening and speaking, and everything. Because if you let one of those skills fall behind the other than when you go to speak, it'll be very off balance to you. So, I say just, listen to as much English as you can but try to listen to it at the level of you currently at. Otherwise you might get very discouraged and feel like "I don't understand anything that they're saying, they just used hundred words and I don't know any of them, or I only knew one of them." But if you listen to your stuff that's at your level then sure you might have to look up a few words, and you might not understand every little part of every sentence but you will be able to understand basically what is happening in the sentence or what is happening in the paragraph. Maybe the other bit of advice is just learn to take your time when you're talking. In English we don't expect thet you are going to be able to say everything perfectly and quickly everytime. So sometimes you just need to take a few seconds and think about what you are going to say. That's fine. 一番重要なのは早いうちにリスニングに集中すること。 日本語を学ぶときに犯したまちがいなんだよね。 そのほかにはリスニング、スピーキング、その他にフォーカスする、というのも どれかひとつでもこの能力が欠けると話すときにバランスが損なわれるからね。 重要なのは、英語をなるべく聞くこと。 ただ聞くんじゃなくて自分のレベルに合った英語を聞くこと。 そうじゃないと「ぜんぜんわかんないや。いっぱい単語使ったけど、全然わかんない。 １こか２こしかわかんない。」ていうことになるから。 でも自分のレベルに合ったものだと、単語は多少調べないといけないし、 細かいところまで全部わかるということはないと思うけど基本的に 何が起こっているかはわかりますよね。 そのほかのアドバイスとしてはゆっくり話すこと。 英語を話しているときに我々はあなた方が全部完璧にすぐ言いたいことを言えるとは思ってないから。 なので、言いたいことを考えてから時間をとっていうのは大丈夫だよ。 M: So first...in the beginning oflearning stage, we need to focus on listening? 第一に、リスニングに集中するのね？ J: I think so. Because that will not only help you to understand what's been said to you but it will also help your pronounciation. そう。そうすると自分にかけられた言葉が理解できるだけではなくて 発音もよくなるからね。 M: That is my theory! Thank you for bringing that up. それって私の言っている説なの。ありがと、とりあげてくれて。 J: Definitely. Compared to Japanese pronounciation, English pronouciation is much more complex, so the more you listen to English being spoken more you will be able to pronounce it. That's very important. それは正しいよ。 日本語の発音に比べて英語の発音は複雑だと思う。なので 英語を聞けば聞くほど、英語の発音ができるようになるよ。 それはとっても大事なこと。 M: Whenever we try to speak English, just take our time? 英語をはなすときは時間をとってもいいのね？ J: Yeah, take your time and use short sentenseces if you have to. People always want to be able to talk the same way in English that they do in Japanese, right? そう。ゆっくり時間をとって必要ならば短い文章を使えばいい。 大体、日本語を話すのと同じように英語を話したいと思っているよね？ M: Yeah. そうね。 J: They have a very complex idea or thought in their head and they want to get that out as quickly as possible. Instead of trying to say one long sentence, make it 2 or 3 short sentences and you still got your point across, we still understand what you said and you'll accomplish your goal. 大体、頭の中に複雑な考えがあって、 早くそれを頭の外に出したくてしょうがない。 ひとつの長ーい文章を言おうとするんじゃなくて 2−3文短い文を作っても十分に言いたいことは伝わるよ。 言いたいことが伝わるってことはゴールが達成されたってことだよね。 M: I see. That's a great advice. Thank you. なるほど。いいアドバイスですね。ありがとう。 J: You are welcome. どういたしまして。 M: Well, you've been talking to Japanese people for a long time, so I guess you know very well what kind of common mistakes we've been making, right? What are those? What are some of the common mistakes made by Japanese people when speaking English. あなたは長い間日本人と話してきたので、 我々がどんな間違いをしているのかわかりますよね？ どんな間違いを英語を話すときによく日本人はしてしまうのでしょうか？ J: Of course we've talked a little bit about the pronouciation problems with Rs, Ls and TH sounds and Ws. But also I think with the prepostion like "in", "at", "on", similar to problems what we would have with Japanese particals. A lot of Japanese people have trouble with pronouns because you don't very often use that pronouns in Japanese, "she", "he", "it", "they", those kinds of words are a little bit troublesome I think, for Japanese people. Let's see, let's say those of the two main mistakes I've seen with propositions and pronounces, and with pronounciation of the particular letters and sounds. Another troublesome sounds that I just thought of is the V sound, like "very". R, L, TH, Wの発音に関しては前にも行ったけど、 in, at, onなどの前置詞もあるよね。 外国人が日本語の助詞で苦労するのと同じ。 あとは代名詞で苦労している人も多い。というのも日本語では代名詞は あまり使われないから「彼女」「かれ」「それ」「彼ら」などの言葉はちょっと 日本人にとっては厄介だ。 そうだね、前置詞と代名詞が２大間違いだね。それと特定の発音。 今思いついたんだけど、veryなどの v音も難しいよ。 M: We have Ba, Bi, Bu, Be, Bo, so I guess a lot of people use those sounds instead of V sound. 日本語にはばびぶべぼ音があるから、ほとんどの人はv音の代わりに 使っているんじゃないかしら。 J: Right. そうだね。 M: That's it? それで全部？ J: I think so. That's all that's coming to mind. そうだとおもう、全部だよ。 M: OK. In the end, do you have any last message to people who have been studying English? じゃあ最後に、英語を学んでいる人に最後のメッセージをどうぞ。 J: Well, for one, I would say, always look for people who you know are serious about language study. A lot of people aren't very serious about it so they are not going to be as patient and as consistent with how they talk to you or how often they talk to you. I have found it hard personally to find people who are very consistent and serious about it. But when I do find them it makes much more enjoyable and relaxed and I don't get nearly as nervous when I'm talking to them. That's one thing I would say, and also even though you don't have somebody to talk to on regular basis, don't be afraid to write, for instance, daily journals in English. Because I think what happens is that if you don't have a chance to use it everyday then of course you are not going to learn as fast and most people don't have a chance to speak it everyday but they can still review. Some people don't like to sit down and review vocabulary or review grammar. But it's a lot more enjoyable and a lot more practical sometimes to sit down at the end of the day. And this is what I do a lot of times is just write a diary or journal entry about everything you did that day. 一つ目には、語学の勉強に真剣な人を探すということ。 ほとんどの人はそんなに真剣じゃないので、話すときにそんなに辛抱強くないし、 頻度的にもそんなに頻繁に話してくれない。 個人的にはそういう人を見つけるのは難しい。 でもいったん見つけると、（話すのが）楽しくなるし、リラックスもできるようになる。 彼らと話しているときにはそんなに緊張せずに済むしね。 それがひとつと・・・定期的に話す人がいない場合でも 英語で日記を書くこともできるよ。 というのも毎日使っていなかったら早く学ぶことはできないけど、毎日話す機会がある人はほんの一握りだと思う。 でも復習はできる。 語彙や文法を復習するのが苦手な人もいるけど、 １日の終わりに復習するのは楽しいし、実用的だよ。 で、一日の終わりに何をしたのか全部日記に書くんだ。 M: Do you do that in Japanese as well? 日本語で日記書くの？ J: Yes. うん。 M: Wow, good for you. すごいじゃない。 J: But not everyday. I do that often, and it allows me to see because of course most people are going to do a lot of the same things everyday, right? But there are going to be different things too. For the most part, there is gonna be a lot of the same things like they get up and they brush their teeth, they go to work, maybe they call their friend. So you start to really learn how to say those common things very easily because you do them all the time. After a week or two of doing that, you don't need to even think about those easy common things anymore. You can start to focus on the parts that are maybe you don't do everyday but maybe you do twice a week or on the weekend. You then can focus on how to be able to say those things. まあ毎日じゃないけど、よく書いてるよ。 ほとんどの人は毎日同じようなことをたくさんするよね？ でも異なっていることもある。 ほとんどの場合は、同じことがたくさんある・・・ たとえば、おきて、歯を磨いて、仕事に行って、友達に電話して・・・ これらのことはいつもやっているから覚えるのが早くなるんだよね。 これを続けると、１−２週間するとこういう簡単なことを言うのに考える必要もなくなる。 そして毎日はしないけど、週に２回するようなこととか、週末だけすることに フォーカスできるようになるんだ。 そこで、そういう頻繁にはしない事柄をどうやって言うのかフォーカスできるようになるんだ。 M: That's really true, I think. そうね、本当にそう思うわ。 J: I think that would be probably the best thing that anybody could do by themselves is just write that down and have a native speaker look at it and just make any corrections. 日記を書いて、ネイティブにみてもらうって言うのが誰でもできる 一番いい方法だと思うね。 M: Well, but a lot of people don't really have foreign friends. でもほとんどの人は外国人の友達もいないよ？ J: Right, but I think, I don't know how it is in English but I know there are Japanese sites where, for instance, I can write something in Japanese and if I put it on there there would be somebody in Japanese who would correct it for me very quickly. I'm assuming there has to be a lot of these sites in English as well. そうだね。 でも英語ではどうだかしらないけど、日本語のサイトには 日本語を書いてそこにupすると、すぐに間違いをなおしてくれるというのがあるよ。 だから英語のそんなサイトもたくさんあるとおもうよ。 M: Yeah, I'm sure we have some. I guess we just have to search it online. そうね。あるはずね。ネットで調べてみるわ。 J: Yeah, if I thought about it I would've thought of one actually there is one I can think of. It's... I will write this down for you. This is the site where you do just thing. It's called linq.com. And it's a site where an American man, he's learned, I think, 9 different languages. あ、実は１つ知ってるよ。 書いてあげる・・・linq.comって言うんだけど。 アメリカ人の男性が９つの外国語をここで学んだんだって。 M: Oh, wow! すごーい！ J: And he speaks them fluently. You can actually go to that site and watch him and listen to him speak in Japanese. When you go to the site, there is always people from different languages and cultures that are on there. So for instance, you can go on there, and people like me will write things in English for Japanese people to read and also to listen to. They have audio samples. And Japanese people can write something in Japanese and then English people will correct it for them. And English people will correct it. で、上手いんだよね。 そこのサイトに行くと彼が日本語を話しているのを見ることができるよ。 サイトに行くと異なった言語や文化を持つ人がいるんだよね。 たとえば、あなたがそこに行くと、僕みたいな人が日本人のために英語を書いたり、 音声を吹き込んだりするわけ。オーディオサンプルもあるんだよね。 M: Oh, wow. It's LINQ.com? I guess, I have to check it out. Linq.comね？見てみないと。 J: It's a very cool site. I haven't been on there as much recently but I was contributing for a while. I have one friend in particular she contributes a lot to the Japanese section on there. I think it's a very good resource. すごいサイトだよ。最近は顔出してないけど一時期よくやってた。 友達は日本語部分でよく修正してあげたりしている。 すごくいいとおもうよ。 M: That's great. Thank you for suggesting that. I didn't know about it at all. すばらしいわ。提案してくれてありがとう。全然知らなかった。 J: I didn't think about it earlier but I'm glad that it just popped into my brain. もっと早くに思いつかなかったけど、出てきて良かったよ。 M: OK. Is there anything else you'd like to add? なにかほかに付け加えることはある？ J: No, I think that's about it. いや、それだけだと思う。 M: OK. Thank you very much for today. 今日はありがとう！ J: My pleasure. どういたしまして！