M: Hello, Jason san.
 
J: Hello, Misato san.
 
M: Thank you for coming, and could you tell me a little bit about yourself?
 
Well,I'm 36 years old.
I started studing Japanese when I was in high school.
I've mostly been studying by myself ever since.
 
M: OK, why are you interested in Japan?
 
J: Well, we have a lot of Japanese people here in America, especially in Oregon,
where I live.
So I wanted to learn the language partially because 
I'd have the opportunity to use it. Also I've just always be drawn to 
Japanese history and culture for some reason ever since I was young.
 
M: What kind of Japanese history, or Japanese culture especially?
 
J: Well, I just thought it's interesting how Japan had such a 
turbulent, or a violent history with all the wars that were going on.
And yet, out of that came a very peaceful and cultural society 
that we know of today.
You have a lot of art and literature and things that just kind of came out
of that really violent period.
I always thought that was kind of an interesting contrast. 
 
And also because of the fact that the Samurai era and everthing I just think it's interesting 
to most guys.
 
M: Right.
 
J: Kind of like the English knights. It's the interesting period in the history.
 
M: And the culture?
 
J: I particularly like the...well, just aside from the fact that Japanese is very different
from America.
 
I mean, everything about Japan is different than in America.
so just that alone is interesting, but also the social, 
just the manners of Japanese people, how they treat each other.
Because there are so many people in Japan, right?
 
So I think in general, they have to be more aware of other people than you have to be
here in America.
 

M: "Aware of other people?"
 
J: Yeah, for instance, 
you have to be aware of there's a lot of people living really close to you.
There are a lot of people with you on the subway, or around on the street.
 
Whereas in America you are more removed from people.
You have more space, so I think that Japanese language partially reflects that.
 
I think that maybe that's one of the reasons why 
Japanese people are so polite because they have to be.
 
They are around more people more often.
And they have to be more considerate, I think.
 

M: Right, I see.
 
J: But also, I just think the certain things like tea ceremony,
and Kabuki theater and Noh plays are interesting to me.
 
M: How did you know about these tea ceremonies, and Kabuki plays and stuff?
Did you read about that, or did you actually watch somebody doing it?
 

J: I've seen, of course in America, we see it being done sometimes on movies 
or on TV.
 
Also when I was in Japanese class in high school, we had a culture day
once a week where our teacher would talk about certain things and 
we actually watched her perform the tea ceremony. 
And she talked a little bit about different kinds of plays and instruments
like koto and shamisen...so she told us a little bit about that, and
I've done a little bit reading on my own since then.
 

M:Great. So you started studying Japanese when you were in high school?
 

J: Yes, when I was 16 years old.
 
M: So you've been studying it for 20 years?
 
J: Yes, but I took a break for maybe two or three years because I had a cancer for a while.
So I wasn't able to focus on it, of course.
 
So aside from that I've been studying it ever since.
 
M: Oh wow. How is it going?
 

J: Well, it's rough at times, I can get very discouraged sometimes, 
because even though you study consistently, sometimes you feel like
you are making a lot of progress. But then when you try to talk to somebody
in Japanese or you try to listen to a conversation in Japanese,
you realise there's still a lot you don't understand.
It can be a little discourage at times, but, I think it's more important to 
focus on the improvements, andI do notice the improvements, so...
 
M: Good. So tell me, when you communicate with Japanese people, is there anything 
that you are careful about?
 
J: Yeah, I think the most important thing that I am careful about
when I speak Japanese or speak to Japanese is not to use too much slang.
 

M: OK.
 
J: And if I do use it, I make sure I'll explain it or ask them 
"Do you understand this? Do you understand the meaning of this?"
Also,I'm careful not to speak too fast, because that's of course 
the common problem for people they just start talking and they don't realise
that they speak way too fast.
 
And, also I try to keep my sentences short.
If there's a way I can say something in two or three small sentences, 
then I'd try to do that, rather than say it in one really big long sentence.
 
M: Wow, you are so nice!
 
J: Yeah, I'm very considerate.
It's just because I've been doing this for a long time.
I know what kind of thing I'd want if I'm speaking to somebody else in another language.
 
M: Well, I'll be careful when I speak to you in Japanese next time.
 
When you comminucate with Japanese people, is there anything that bugs you?
 
J: Nothing specific.
I mean, other than, of course not being able to understand each other, but 
nothing specific that I can say "yes, this really bothers me, or
this really bothers me."
 
I think that...yeah, other than maybe the slang.
 
It works in both ways. Sometimes people use slang in Japanese to me 
and I don't understand it either, so...
 
I think the only thing that bothers me is maybe people using
really really complex sentences, maybe. 
 
And I start to get frustrated and that makes me not listen as much to
what they are saying.
So that can be a little tough at times, I think.
 

M: Tell me the most surprising experience you've had when communicating 
with Japanese people.
 
J: Let's see. well, I have one story that does come to mind.
It is surprising, but it's maybe not surprising in a way you are meaning it.
 
M:OK.
 

J: So, in Japanese of course, you have a lot of words that sound similar. right?
So, when I was talking to one of my Japanese friend one time, he was telling me
about this very, very famous temple that he wanted to go see in Japan. 
 
I guess the biggest temple in all of Japan.
Now, of course, in Japanese the word for temple is "otera".
OK, but when he told me that he was going to see this big, famous "otera",
for some reason I thought he meant "otearai".
 
And so, he's all excited about it.
Saying "Yeah! I'm gonna go see this real famous place!" 
And I'm thinking, "Wow, really? You guys really have a famous bathroom in Japan?
What's so great about it? I don't understand!"
 
And finally, after about five minutes, 
It finally occured to me that he meant temple instead of otearai.
Yeah, there are those misunderstandings some times. 
And I told him that I misunderstood and I think he probably laughed for, maybe five minutes after that.
 

M: Some people ask me,
"I can't continue the conversation in English."
Do you have any advice to people like that?
 
J: Well, that happens to me a lot as well as you know.
 
There's times when you simply won't be able to continue the conversation,
talking about the same subject that you are currently talking about.
 

And there might not be any way around that at the time.
But I think what I do is, I pay attention to the things that 
each time that I'm not able to continue talking about.
 
Eventually I think you'll start to notice the pattern, 
about maybe the certain grammer structures that you are not comfortable with and 
that's why you can't continue the conversation. Or of course vocabulary is always an issue.
But I think if you pay attention to each conversation after three or four times 
you'll start to notice that it wasn't so much because of the vocabulary 
maybe it's more because of how to construct sentenses you weren't comfortable with 
or certain grammer structure, so then you start to review those and the next time, 
between conversations you can bo back and pretend like you are still having a conversation
and write it down and say "OK, what I've said now that I had a chance to study a little bit" 
and just continue that conversation and see if you can finish it.
 
M: OK. That's a great advice. Thank you.
 
J: You are welcome.
 
 
 
M: When talking to native English speakers, sometimes they have
trouble understanding what we are trying to say. 
What do you think, is the main reason for that?
 
J: Well, I think of course aside from the very obious thing 
like we talk very fast or we use a lot of slang or idioms, idiomatic expressions
that mean something very different from what it actually means if you are trying to translate directly.
People use those kinds of expressions a lot and they don't realize how much they use them.
So I think that's one big obstacle 
and I think a lot of Americans, especially if they don't have a background in speaking another language.
They don't understand the kind of obstacles that these Japanese people are facing when they are talking to you.
They don't understand that you might have to try and explain things in more than one way 
in order for these people to understand.
So hopefully if you are talking to somebody who is looking for a language partner, 
they'll be more sensitive to those kinds of problems, I think.
 
M: OK. So I guess we just have to choose and select whom we talk to.
 
J: I think so. That'll be a big part of it. That's the biggest thing that I think that comes to my mind.
Um, of course I'm thinking more what you are trying to say.
Maybe what I try to do if I'm not quite sure what the Japanese person is trying to say,
then I will ask them maybe one or two questions, "Do you mean this, or do you mean this?"
And usually they will say "Oh, yeah, that's it. That second one was what I was trying to say." or "No, that's not it at all."
That happens sometimes maybe I think is unavoidable all the time.
I just usually slowly ask them "Do you mean this, or do you mean this?" and usually that would be enough to clarify.
 
M: When you have trouble understanding what they're trying to say, is it like prononuciation or grammer...?
 
J: Oh, I see. Well, it can be both. As you know Japanese people have trouble pronoucing certain 
words and certain sounds.
Yeah, that happens to me all the time when like my Japanese person says, 
for instance, something about "food" or "wood".
See, when Japanese person say these two words and sounds exactly same to an American, 
so they might be talking about I want to eat some food, tabemono, right? 
When I say it, it sounds almost like they I want to eat some wood, "ki".
 
M: Why? Why is it same?? I mean it's food and wood, right?
 
J: Well, because Japanese people have trouble with W sound so they don't pronounce it at all.
They can pronounce the F sound, food. Thay can pronounce that OK sometimes because you have that sound in Japanese.
But they cannot pronounce W sound. A lot of times, I won't understand so takes me like a second 
and I have to think about what they are saying.
But there was an instance just the other day, I'm trying to remember what it was.
A friend of mine said a word. Ah, I just did not understand what she was saying. 
It was just because of one syllable what she was mispronoucing and finally I just said that
"Can you please write it?" when she wrote it, I laughed and I said "OK" and, I pronounced it.
Yeah, I mean, that happens unfortunatelly you can try to correct the pronounciation, right?
but the problem is sometimes Japanese people simply can't hear the difference.
So they can't correct the pronounciation because they can't hear that even the sound's different to them.
I'm not quite sure how to fix that. But usually I'd say it's "pronouciacion more than grammer".
 
M: So the big thing is like W, and TH?
 
J: Yeah, and R and L sound like rice and laugh, and other TH sound like Mr. Smi"th".
Japanese people tend to say Mr. Smi"S", that with an S. 
And for instance, "There is". Japanese people tend to say "Zere is" with most like a Z sound.
W sounds are difficult like "wood" or "want", or "won't" like "I won't go to the store".
 
Those are big obstacles, I think.
 
M: OK. Great. So I guess we should work on those, right?
 
J: I think so, but again don't be too discouraged because we can usually still understand what 
you are trying to say.
It's just sometimes, like I said the other day there was that certain instance 
I couldn't understand until she wrote it.
That's pretty rare, I think. Usually we can understand what you are trying to say.
 
M: OK. So just don't be too discouraged.
 
J: Do your best and don't spend too much time on it and feel like we are not gonna be able to understand.
 
M: All right. Thank you for your advice.
 

M: Some people are afraid to speak English, because they are worried 
about making mistakes. What's your advice to people who feel
that way?"
 
J: Well, the ironic thing is unless you've been speaking for 10 years and you are fluent, 
you are going to always make mistakes.  
I have this problem.  I don't want to make mistakes.  
When I make mistakes, I get discouraged.  
So it makes me not want to speak Japanese.  
You can't get caught in that trap because then you will never improve and you'll never speak.
So you just have to make up your mind that you know I will make a ton of mistakes.  
I don't care.  You will laugh about it and my friend will most certainly laugh about it when I make the mistakes.
So just try to say anything you want to say.  Even if you make 20 mistakes it doesn't matter.  
Because you can always go back and learn.  Next time you might only make 15 mistakes or 10 mistakes. 
Yeah, I say just do it as much as you can. 
Make all the mistakes right away and then learn all the common mistakes 
so you won't make them anymore.
 
M: Yeah, I would say the more you make mistakes the more you learn, actually.
 
J: Yeah, exactly. It's just like with anything. 
Like I can't just pick up a guitar and look over a song and memorize and play it perfectly.
 
M: That would be a genious man.
 
J: Yeah. I've gotta tell you that I'm learning a new song on guitar, 
I make probably hundreds of mistakes before I'm able to play perfectly.
So it's just the way it is and people have to accept it, and not worry about it.
 
M: All right. That's a great advice. Thanks.
 
J: You are welcome.
 
M: What do you think is the most effective way for Japanese people to learn to speak English?"
 
J: I think it's critically important early on to really focus on listening comprehension.
That was the mistake that I made myself when I was learning Japanese 
then I didn't focus on listening comprehension.
So I think it's important to really focus on listening and speaking, and everything.
Because if you let one of those skills fall behind the other than when you go to speak, 
it'll be very off balance to you.
So, I say just, listen to as much English as you can but try to listen to it at the level of you currently at.
Otherwise you might get very discouraged and feel like "I don't understand anything that they're saying, 
they just used hundred words and I don't know any of them, or I only knew one of them."
 
But if you listen to your stuff that's at your level then sure you might have to look up a few words, 
and you might not understand every little part of every sentence but you will be able to understand 
basically what is happening in the sentence or what is happening in the paragraph.
 
Maybe the other bit of advice is just learn to take your time when you're talking.
In English we don't expect thet you are going to be able to say everything perfectly and quickly everytime.
So sometimes you just need to take a few seconds and think about what you are going to say. That's fine.
 
M: So first...in the beginning of learning stage, we need to focus on listening?
 
J: I think so. Because that will not only help you to understand what's been said to you 
but it will also help your pronounciation. 
 
M: That is my theory! Thank you for bringing that up. 
 
J: Definitely. 
Compared to Japanese pronounciation, English pronouciation is much more complex, 
so the more you listen to English being spoken more you will be able to pronounce it.
That's very important.
 
M: Whenever we try to speak English, just take our time?
 
J: Yeah, take your time and use short sentenseces if you have to.
People always want to be able to talk the same way in English that they do in Japanese, right?
 
M: Yeah.
 
J: They have a very complex idea or thought in their head and 
they want to get that out as quickly as possible. 
Instead of trying to say one long sentence, make it 2 or 3 short sentences 
and you still got your point across, we still understand what you said and you'll accomplish your goal.
 
M: I see. That's a great advice. Thank you.
 
J: You are welcome.
 
M: Well, you've been talking to Japanese people for a long time, 
so I guess you know very well what kind of common mistakes we've been making, right?
What are those? What are some of the common mistakes made by Japanese people when speaking English.
 
J: Of course we've talked a little bit about the pronouciation problems with Rs, Ls and TH sounds and Ws.
But also I think with the prepostion like "in", "at", "on", 
similar to problems what we would have with Japanese particals.
A lot of Japanese people have trouble with pronouns 
because you don't very often use pronouns in Japanese, "she", "he", "it", "they", 
those kinds of words are a little bit troublesome I think, for Japanese people.
Let's see, let's say those of the two main mistakes I've seen with propositions and pronounces,
and with pronounciation of the particular letters and sounds.
Another troublesome sounds that I just thought of is the V sound, like "very".
 
M: We have Ba, Bi, Bu, Be, Bo, so I guess a lot of people use those sounds instead of V sound.
 
J: Right.
 
M: That's it?
 
J: I think so. That's all that's coming to mind.
 
M: OK.
In the end, do you have any last message to people who have been studying English?
 
J: Well, for one, I would say, always look for people who you know are serious about language study.
A lot of people aren't very serious about it so they are not going to be as patient 
and as consistent with how they talk to you or how often they talk to you.
I have found it hard personally to find people who are very consistent and serious about it.
But when I do find them it makes much more enjoyable and relaxed 
and I don't get nearly as nervous when I'm talking to them.
That's one thing I would say, and also even though you don't have somebody to talk to on regular basis, 
don't be afraid to write, for instance, daily journals in English. 
Because I think what happens is that if you don't have a chance to use it everyday 
then of course you are not going to learn as fast and most people don't have a chance to speak it everyday 
but they can still review.
Some people don't like to sit down and review vocabulary or review grammar.
but it's a lot more enjoyable and a lot more practical sometimes to sit down at the end of the day.
And this is what I do a lot of times is just write a diary or journal entry about everything you did that day.
 
M: Do you do that in Japanese as well?
 
J: Yes.
 
M: Wow, good for you.
 
J: But not everyday. I do that often, and it allows me to see 
because of course most people are going to do a lot of the same things everyday, right?
But there are going to be different things too. 
For the most part, there is gonna be a lot of the same things 
like they get up and they brush their teeth, they go to work, maybe they call their friend.
So you start to really learn how to say those common things very easily because you do them all the time.
After a week or two of doing that, you don't need to even think about those easy common things anymore.
You can start to focus on the parts that are maybe you don't do everyday but maybe you do twice a week or on the weekend.
You then can focus on how to be able to say those things.
 
M: That's really true, I think.
 
J: I think that would be probably the best thing that anybody could do by themselves is just write that down 
and have a native speaker look at it and just make any corrections.
 
M: Well, but a lot of people don't really have foreign friends.
 
J: Right, but I think, I don't know how it is in English but I know there are Japanese sites where, 
for instance, I can write something in Japanese and 
if I put it on there there would be somebody in Japanese who would correct it for me very quickly.
I'm assuming there has to be a lot of these sites in English as well.
 
M: Yeah, I'm sure we have some. I guess we just have to search it online.
 
J: Yeah, if I thought about it I would've thought of one actually there is one I can think of.
It's... I will write this down for you. This is the site where you do just thing. It's called linq.com.
And it's a site where an American man, he's learned, I think, 9 different languages.
 
M: Oh, wow!
 
J: And he speaks them fluently. You can actually go to that site and watch him 
and listen to him speak in Japanese. 
When you go to the site, there is always people from different languages and cultures that are on there.
So for instance, you can go on there, and people like me will write things in English for Japanese people to read and also to listen to. 
They have audio samples. And Japanese people can write something in Japanese and then English people will correct it for them.
And English people will correct it.
 
M: Oh, wow. It's LINQ.com? I guess, I have to check it out.
 
J: It's a very cool site. I haven't been on there as much recently but I was contributing for a while.
I have one friend in particular she contributes a lot to the Japanese section on there.
I think it's a very good resource.
 
M: That's great. Thank you for suggesting that. I didn't know about it at all.
 
J: I didn't think about it earlier but I'm glad that it just popped into my brain.
 
M: OK. Is there anything else you'd like to add?
 
J: No, I think that's about it.
 
M: OK. Thank you very much for today.
 
J: My pleasure.